Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

Farhan Thawar is the head of engineering at Shopify, where he oversees more than 1,000 engineers and a platform that powers over 10% of all U.S. e-commerce. Before Shopify, he was VP of engineering at Pivotal Labs and Xtreme Labs, and co-founder of Helpful.com. In our conversation, Farhan shares:• Why choosing the harder path leads to better outcomes• How to create intensity within your org (without burnout)• Why every company should be embracing pair programming• How he hires without interviewing• How he built the world’s largest internship program• His mission to create a “crafter’s paradise” for engineers• Much more—Brought to you by:• DX—A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity• Persona—A global leader in digital identity verification• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-shopify-builds-a-high-intensity-culture-farhan-thawer—Where to find Farhan Thawar:• X: https://x.com/fnthawar• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fnthawar—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Farhan’s background(05:38) Choosing the hard path(09:37) Getting comfortable with looking dumb(13:20) Lessons from working with visionaries(19:19) Creating intensity in organizations(22:06) The power of pair programming(29:18) Shopify’s culture of intensity(37:18) Meeting Armageddon: revolutionizing company meetings(39:46) Reducing distractions(41:10) Deleting 1M+ lines of code(49:05) Three buckets of building(57:45) Remote work and trust battery(01:00:29) Finding stability in uncomfortable times(01:03:14) Hiring philosophy(01:11:41) Internship programs and co-op systems(01:15:32) Lessons from managing 120 direct reports(01:20:40) Failure corner(01:27:46) Lightning round and closing thoughts—Referenced:• The Steve Jobs quote about connecting dots: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/463176-you-can-t-connect-the-dots-looking-forward-you-can-only• Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/• GitHub: https://github.com/• Farhan’s “questions to ask” framework: https://x.com/fnthawar/status/1514193402828574721• Palantir: https://www.palantir.com/• Joe Liemandt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liemandt• Chamath Palihapitya: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamath_Palihapitiya• Xtreme Labs: https://www.xtremelabs.io• Parkinson’s law: https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-parkinsons-law-6674423• Pair programming: https://dev.to/documatic/pair-programming-best-practices-and-tools-154j• Cody Fauser on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/codyfauser• How Shopify builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-shopify-builds-product• Chaos Monkey: We look at Shopify’s new ‘culture of focus’: https://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/shopify-chaos-monkey-meetings-culture-deann-evans• Empowering devs with AI: How Shopify made GitHub Copilot core to its culture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVKBwcm5dbw&t=2318s• Tobi Lütke of Shopify: Powering a Team with a ‘Trust Battery’: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/business/tobi-lutke-of-shopify-powering-a-team-with-a-trust-battery.html• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach• Stop Being Deceived by Interviews When You’re Hiring: https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesleadershipforum/2012/02/07/stop-being-deceived-by-interviews-when-youre-hiring/• Shopify’s made the Life Story a major part of their interview: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39294140• Internships at Shopify: https://internships.shopify.com• Nick Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nick-adams-32b28139• React Native: https://reactnative.dev• Swift: https://www.swift.org• Acquired podcast: The Mark Zuckerberg interview: https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/the-mark-zuckerberg-interview• The Power of Performance Reviews: Use This System to Become a Better Manager: https://review.firstround.com/the-power-of-performance-reviews-use-this-system-to-become-a-better-manager• Airbnb’s Vlad Loktev on embracing chaos, inquiry over advocacy, poking the bear, and “impact, impact, impact” (Partner at Index Ventures, Airbnb GM/VP Product): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/impact-impact-impact-vlad-loktev• The Secret to a Great Planning Process—Lessons from Airbnb and Eventbrite: https://review.firstround.com/the-secret-to-a-great-planning-process-lessons-from-airbnb-and-eventbrite• How to do great work: https://www.paulgraham.com/greatwork.html• Challengers on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Challengers-Luca-Guadagnino/dp/B0CX5MZ9M4• Halt and Catch Fire on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Halt-Catch-Fire-Season-1/dp/B0CKXZNT96• Meta Ray-Bans: https://www.meta.com/smart-glasses/shop-all• Making Meta | Andrew ‘Boz’ Bosworth (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto—Recommended books:• The Undoing Project: A Friendship That Changed Our Minds: https://www.amazon.com/Undoing-Project-Friendship-Changed-Minds/dp/0393254593• Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized-World/dp/0735214484• Manna: Two Visions of Humanity’s Future: https://www.amazon.com/Manna-Two-Visions-Humanitys-Future-ebook/dp/B007HQH67U• Business Adventures: Twelve Classic Tales from the World of Wall Street: https://www.amazon.com/Business-Adventures-Twelve-Classic-Street/dp/1504000021—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe